Saturday, August 08, 2009

Alcohol or Arak or Thamar is forbidden for Muslim. I do not deny it. Here is an excerpt Intoxicants were forbidden in the Qur'an through several separate verses revealed at different times over a period of years. At first, it was forbidden for Muslims to attend to prayers while intoxicated (4:43). Then a later verse was revealed which said that alcohol contains some good and some evil, but the evil is greater than the good (2:219). This was the next step in turning people away from consumption of it. Finally, "intoxicants and games of chance" were called "abominations of Satan's handiwork," intended to turn people away from God and forget about prayer, and Muslims were ordered to abstain (5:90-91). (Note - the Qur'an is not arranged chronologically, so later verses of the book were not necessarily revealed after earlier verses.)

In the first verse cited above, the word for "intoxicated" is sukara which is derived from the word "sugar" and means drunk or intoxicated. That verse doesn't mention the drink which makes one so. In the next verses cited, the word which is often translated as "wine" or "intoxicants" is al-khamr, which is related to the verb "to ferment." This word could be used to describe other intoxicants such as beer, although wine is the most common understanding of the word.

Muslims interpret these verses in total to forbid any intoxicating substance -- whether it be wine, beer, gin, whiskey, or whatever. The result is the same, and the Qur'an outlines that it is the intoxication, which makes one forgetful of God and prayer, which is harmful. Over the years, the list of intoxicating substances has come to include more modern street drugs and the like.

The Prophet Muhammad also instructed his followers, at the time, to avoid any intoxicating substances -- (paraphrased) "if it intoxicates in a large amount, it is forbidden even in a small amount." For this reason, most observant Muslims avoid alcohol in any form, even small amounts that are sometimes used in cooking.

A man from Yemen once asked the Prophet about a liquor made from millet called mizr which people drank in his country. The Prophet asked whether it was intoxicating and when the man replied in the affirmative, the Prophet(pbuh) said "Every intoxicant is prohibited. Allah has made a covenant regarding those who drink intoxicants to give them some tinat al-khabal to drink." He was asked what that was and he replied that it was the sweat of the inhabitants of hell, or the discharge of the inhabitants of hell. (Muslim) He who drinks alcohol ( wine,liquor or beer) in this world will be made to drink poison from Asawida (black and poisonous snakes) that will cause both the skin and the flesh of his face to fall into the vessel he drinks from. God Almighty shall accept neither the fasting, prayers nor even the pilgrimage of the one who drinks, brews, sells, or uses money obtained from selling alcohol unless he or she sincerely repents, vowing never to commit that evil again, and Allah accepts his or her repentance. Otherwise, that person will be made to drink the pus of Hell for every single drop of alcohol he or she had imbibed in this world.
Abdullah bin Umar related that the Prophet(pbuh) said: "Do not sit together with drinkers, nor visit them when they are sick. Do not even attend their funerals. The drinkers of alcohol shall come on the Last Day with black faces, their tongues leaning on one side and sliva coming out of their mouths. Anyone who sees their filthy appearance will know that they were the drinkers of alcohol." Wa'il al-Hadrami said that Tariq bin Suwaid asked the Prophet(pbuh) about wine and the Prophet(pbuh) forbade him. When Tariq told him that he made it only as a medicine, the Prophet(pbuh) replied, "It is not a medicine but a disease." (Muslim) Jabir reported the Messenger of Allah as saying "If a large amount of anything causes intoxication, a small amount of it is also prohibited." (Tirmidhi, Abu Daud and Ibn Majah)

Note: The word alcohol is derived from the Arabic word al-kohl, which means fermented grains, fruits, or sugars that form an intoxicating beverage when fermented. Khamr or khamrah is the word used in the Qur'an to denote a fermented beverage that intoxicates a person when he/she drinks it. It is sometimes translated as "wine."

Khamr in Early Muslim History

Pre-Islamic Arabs had harsh lives and felt that alcohol was an indispensable way to cope with their problems. Among the troubles that the Arab people had before Islam were: tribal warfare, excessive pride and competition, prostitution, insecurity, broken homes, and female infanticide. Women were treated as slaves, and children were deprived of affection, while men were expected to be tough and competitive. These were all factors that compelled people to drink.

Sale of alcohol was so common that the name for merchant, tajir, became synonymous with the seller of khamr. Khamr shops and bars were open 24 hours a day.

The first Qur'anic verse (chronologically) to deal with alcohol was revealed in Mecca before the hijra:

"And from the fruit of the date-palm and the vine ye get out wholesome drink and food: behold in this also is a Sign for those who are wise." (16:67)
After this verse, some Muslims started to wonder about the correctness of taking khamr.Revealed in Madinah a few years later, was this verse:
"They ask thee concerning wine and gambling, say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit..."(2:219)
Most Muslims continued to drink but some began to abstain or reduce their intake. Certain Muslims had been abstinent even in the pre-Islamic days, most notably, Uthman Ibn Affan, who later was the third Khalifa. Uthman said, "Al-khamr 'robs' the mind totally; and I have not yet seen anything which when entirely 'robbed' or curtailed will come back in its original intact form!"

Recent studies have shown that drinking alcohol can in fact cause permanent damage to memory and learning ability.

The third mention of alcohol by Allah (SWT) in the Qur'an occurred as follows:

"O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say, ..." (4:43)
Now there was a great difficulty in being drunk, since a Muslim has to pray five times a day. The Prophet (SAW) is reported to have said, "Prayer is the pillar of religion. The one who performs it has erected religion and the one who abandons it has ruined (his) religion." Since the prayers are spread throughout the day, it is difficult if not impossible, for a good Muslim to ever get drunk.

If a Muslim failed to appear at the mosque in those days, his friends would think he was ill. He would then feel guilty that really, it was just his drunkenness that prevented him from coming. The religious brotherhood of Muslims helped encourage abstinence from alcohol in those days. It is still true today, that Muslims help each other be strong in resisting such temptations. The Muslim who falls away from the rest of the community becomes like a lost sheep among wolves, and risks being engulfed by sinful ways.

Since there were no drugs in those days to help ease the pain of withdrawal symptoms, alcoholic Muslims began to slowly reduce their intake. Honey was given to these alcoholics to help them restore vitamins to their bodies and ease the detoxification process. These two techniques (slow withdrawal and honey) have been shown in recent times to be effective and helpful in treating alcoholics.

During this period of weaning from alcohol, khamr sellers also began looking for a new means of livelihood.

"...The devil wants only to cast among you enmity and hatred by means of strong drink and games of chance and to turn you from remembering Allah and from prayer. Will you then desist." (5:90-91)
These verses are the ones that declared total prohibition of alcohol to the Muslims. After this verse was revealed, the Muslim citizens of Madinah immediately began to spill their stocks of wine into the sand and streets; so that the wine ran through the streets of Madinah. Individuals who up till that moment were enjoying guiltlessly a glass of wine, quickly emptied their cups on the ground and spit out the alcohol from their mouths. They rushed to make ablutions in order to purify themselves.

Yes Muslim is forbidden to drink alcohol, no doubt about it, to do it the Muslims would have done something prohibited thus they have committed a sin. It does not say that you become an unbeliever but a sinner. It is one of the biggest sin and when you die you will be punish by God. That is it. In an Islamic country laws can be created to punish the Muslims who contravene the rules. Punishment can be harsh up to 80 lashes but then since Syariah law there is no uniformity sentences will depend on the country that exist. For me punishment are only inspired by the idea we are doing God's work but if the law is not a deterrent's but a punishment then it should not be Islamic Law for in Islamic law the idea is to deter not to punish. To me the issue at hand is selling of Alcohol is it wrong for Muslims to sell Alcohol? Many Jurist believe so to me there is no hard and fast rule. Alcohol is forbidden for Muslim but not non muslim for them it is a drink they drink habitually. It is not a sin to them so is it wrong to sell them liquor in this modern age? It is still business and according to a hadiths Business is two thirds of the world wealth and we are encourage to do business. In an Islamic World of Yore it might be so but now the economies is difficult to control and wield.For me Muslim should not drink and avoid any dealings with liquor if they can but if it is part of job description then as long as you do not consume I believe it can be so. But this is my private ijtihad and I live by that rule. Anyway back to the sell of liquor in Shah Alam the mini Islamic city, is it wrong? I don't think so. The seller of liquor by 7Eleven and KK a 24 hours convenient shop are own by non Muslim. If the one fronting the counter is muslim than this thing need to be overcome but if you are selling to non Muslim to me than it is not wrong. We ask people to respect our belief but have we in turn respect other peoples belief?

Everytime during Raya we serve Beef Rendang although we know Beef is taboo to Hindus and Buddhist but we serve them anywhere. To me then if we go to a kafir house and they serve us bacon why should we be annoyed or angry. We need not eat the bacon, we could take the other dishes available but why these things offend us when we do the same to others. To me it is a convenient shop own by non Muslim, there are other provision shops available why don't we patronize them instead of 7 eleven. Nobody force us to go to 7 eleven but why do we? If we have an issue with that place then don't patronize them why force them to follow our beliefs and impose them rules when we should safeguard our own Ummah? If our Ummah is weak we are guilty by the way in the states and Europe certain convenient shops owns by Muslim sells liquor but then there is no bro ha ha about it right? So why now?

If we ask respect from others we must learn to respect others too for in Surah Al kafiruun your religions is yours my religions is mine so be it.

Storm in a beer mug

7 Aug 09 : 7.46PM

By William JK Leong
editor@thenutgraph.comeditor at thenutgraph dot com

(lusi /
STATE PAS commissioner Datuk Dr Hassan Ali recently criticised DAP member Ronnie Liu for disputing the Shah Alam Municipal Council's seizure of beer sold by a convenience store. Hassan said Selangor PAS supported banning the sale of alcoholic drinks in convenience stores in Muslim-majority areas, and that PAS would come out with its draft by-laws governing alcohol sales in the state.

This situation shows the need for Malaysians to be aware of subconscious racial discrimination and religious intolerance. We need to stop looking at every issue from the perspective of race and religion, and undergo a renaissance of our views, values and mindset.

There are clear laws related to the manufacture, distribution and selling of beer and liquor, but there are no laws prohibiting the sale of beer in convenience stores. The enforcement unit of the Shah Alam Municipal Council is not empowered to make laws and regulations, only to enforce existing ones.

Syariah law does govern Muslims from consuming alcohol, but enforcement officers do not have jurisdiction to enforce it, and certainly not against non-Muslims.

Hassan Ali should have mentioned that he was elected not to only represent Muslims, but Malaysians irrespective of race or religion. There are many other people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, as well as social groups that are rightly concerned about the ill-effects of beer drinking. Shouldn't Hassan Ali have sought their views and given voice to their concerns, too?

(rgvmonster /
There is certainly a difference between concern and law. Concerns should be examined before laws are enacted or amended. Appropriately, a proposed ban on the sale of alcohol should be discussed and debated.

Alcohol through the ages

History shows that many societies and countries have had to deal with alcohol prohibition, pertinently in the early half of the 20th century: Canada; Russia and the Soviet Union; Iceland; Norway; Hungary; Finland; and the US, to name just a few.

In the US, the manufacture, sale and transportation of liquor was made illegal in 1920, but the prohibition was ineffective. It caused an explosive growth in crime and increased the amount of consumption. Drinking went underground and illegal "speakeasies" mushroomed all over the country. Bootleggers smuggled liquor from overseas, stole it from government warehouses, and produced their own. The illegal liquor business fell into the control of organised crime.

Prohibition saw the crime rate skyrocketing with a nearly 78% increase. It saw serious crimes such as homicides, assault and battery increase by 13%. The number of federal convicts increased 561%.

Prohibition was repealed on 5 Dec 1933 — the first and only time in US history that an amendment to the constitution has been repealed.

Not all social ills can be solved by making them illegal. It was through education and voluntary temperance that these societies learnt more effective measures to counter alcohol abuse, rather than by making the consumption of alcohol illegal.

All the beer taps in a row...
All the beer taps in a row...

The religious looking glasses

It is unfortunate that Hassan Ali looked at the problem solely through a pair of Muslim glasses. His statement has turned the problem from being a social concern to a struggle between Muslims and non-Muslims. It has raised the mistaken belief by non-Muslims that Islam does not tolerate the existence of other religions. On the contrary, Islam recognises that there is a plurality of religions, and gives the right to individuals to choose the path which they believe to be true.

It has always been the central approach of Islam to resist all forms of oppression. To succeed in this struggle, mere tolerance by Muslims of other religions is not enough. Muslims must unite with Malaysians of all faiths and work towards the common goal of justice, mutual respect, equal treatment and robust pluralism.

Unfortunately, those brave enough to stand up and voice out are often silenced and punished. We need to combine into one the common strands of our different racial descents, and use the unique strengths of our diversity to forge a stronger bond.

It is hoped that all Malaysians, and in particular our Pakatan Rakyat state executive members, will heed the call for a renewal of our values, and to steel ourselves with the conviction that only a Malaysian renaissance will set us free.

PAS and the alcohol ban

6 Aug 09 : 6.30PM

By Datuk Dr Denison Jayasooria
editor@thenutgraph.comeditor at thenutgraph dot com

(lusi /
PAS's move to implement a blanket ban on the sale of alcohol in all Muslim-majority areas in Selangor has now given us an opportunity to draw up guidelines on alcohol sale. While their call for a ban might seem drastic, it must not be viewed from a moralistic or from only an Islamic perspective. This call for a ban is an opportunity for us to recognise the problems associated with alcohol abuse, which is acknowledged by all the world's major religions.

There are major social and health-related problems associated with alcohol abuse among the natives of Sabah and Sarawak, among the Orang Asli and sections of the Indian Malaysian community in Peninsular Malaysia. There are so many silent sufferers, especially women and children, who are victims of alcoholics and other behavioural problems arising from alcohol consumption.

The Consumers Association of Penang has undertaken many studies on this matter and proven that there is a social-impact dimension involved as well. Hence, while PAS was speaking for the Muslim community, many of the social issues and abuses are among non-Muslim communities.

(vivekchugh /
Society has already accepted that certain types of human behaviour can affect oneself and others. In the case of smoking, the Health Ministry and other authorities have undertaken many measures to restrict where one can smoke in public places, and on cigarette company sponsorship and advertisement. These initiatives are done in the interest of the common good.

A total ban of alcohol has not been effective in the past. Nonetheless, there is still an urgent need for Malaysian society to discuss further the issues arising from the negative and abusive aspects of unrestricted sale and availability of alcohol.

Currently there are already some forms of restrictions on alcohol. For example, one cannot drink and drive; alcohol can only be sold in licensed shops; alcohol cannot be sold to underaged individuals; and there are restricted hours for places which sell and serve alcohol. There are laws to curtail the production and sale of illegal and unlicensed alcoholic products as well.

The problems we face have often been associated with weak enforcement by the local authorities. There must be some public outcry on this matter because of the negative impact of alcohol abuse.

Some restrictions on the places and locations where alcohol is sold are necessary. For example, not permitting the sale of alcohol in or near residential areas and schools might be necessary. This will include all kinds of residential areas.

(Matchstick /
Designated places where the sale and consumption of alcohol can take place should also be regulated by the local authority. For example, it might be healthy not consuming alcohol in a public park or even during a football game.

While this proposal is being advocated by PAS, my interest is as a sociologist from a social work background. I am a Christian by conviction and belief. Therefore, let us not discuss social issues and concerns from a perspective that divides us. Let's find alliances and collaborations across religions.

Public education

Alcohol producers, promoters and retailers have not embarked on public education on the potential of alcohol addiction. The government has not done enough to address the resultant abusive behaviour and health-related problems. Currently, there are no counselling programmes and if there are any, they would be inadequate. There are also no rehabilitation services like for drug addiction.

I strongly advocate that alcohol producers and the related industry pay a levy from their annual sales for public education on alcohol abuse and addiction. They should also take greater responsibility for the rehabilitation of alcoholics. Some systematic intervention programmes are necessary to assist women and children who face abuse and violence. Federal and state agencies must address these concerns.

Maybe the Selangor government could take the lead in providing the guidelines necessary for healthy living and ensure that all responsible will put human lives before profits.

Selangor beer squabble may spill over to Permatang Pasir

By Neville Spykerman

Selangor councillor Ronnie Liu was attacked by PAS commissioner Hassan Ali for “interfering” with an unauthorised MBSA beer raid. — Picture by Choo Choy May

SHAH ALAM, Aug 7 — The on-going squabble in Selangor between PAS and DAP over beer may have consequences that go far beyond the state’s borders.

Insiders in both parties think Selangor PAS commissioner Datuk Hassan Ali has played into the hands of Umno, which will reap the benefits of the wedge between the Islamic party and secular DAP, ahead of the Permatang Pasir by-election in Penang.

Hassan has called for DAP’s Ronnie Liu to be stripped of his local government portfolio for “interfering” in beer seizures from a 7-Eleven outlet by enforcement officers in Shah Alam on July 29.

The by-election in Permatang Pasir had been called following the death of Mohd Hamdan Abdul Rahman, 60, from a heart attack on July 31.

The assemblyman was PAS’ only state lawmaker in Penang and the Islamic party has the most to lose if the on-going dispute in Selangor is not contained.

If Malay voters continue to be split down the middle as they were in Manek Urai, the outcome of Permatang Pasir will be decided by the constituency’s 25 per cent Chinese and 1 per cent Indian voters.

Penang PAS deputy commissioner Dr Mujahid Yusuf Rawa said the lessons from Manek Urai, where the party scraped by with a 65-vote majority, had been learnt.

Although he maintains that Permatang Pasir is not Manek Urai, he concedes that retaining Mohd Hamdan’s 5,433 votes garnered in last year’s general elections will be an uphill task.

Mujahid said Selangor’s PAS/DAP fiasco and recent remarks by DAP’s Jeff Ooi — who labelled Jemaah Islah Malaysia (JIM) as an extremist Islamic organisation — are not helping the situation.

“Umno is bound to use these issues against us during the by-election and it’s important for these issues to be resolved before then,” he said.

Meanwhile in Selangor, Pakatan Rakyat (PR) leaders including those from PAS are either stumped or incensed by Hassan Ali’s conduct.

During a press conference on Tuesday, the PAS executive councillor (exco) lashed out at Liu for interfering in the work of enforcement officers from the Shah Alam City Council (MBSA), which seized beer from a 7-Eleven outlet located near a surau in Section 8.

A decision was made to return the beer the next day on July 30 because the seizure was illegal. MBSA mayor Mazalan Md Noor has clarified that there are no by-laws which allow enforcement officers to make the seizure. He added the beer can only be seized if sold openly to Muslims or minors.

However, Hassan Ali who claimed to represent Selangor PAS said the party supported the seizure.

A PAS leader told The Malaysian Insider that Hassan Ali was either naïve for playing into the hands of Umno or working with them to topple the PR state government.

Another Pakatan member of parliament pointed out that Hassan Ali could have raised the issue at the weekly state exco meeting but instead chose to raise it with the press.

“I am not sure what he is up to but I doubt the issue is merely about the sale of beer.”

DAP’s Tony Pua said: “We are completely stumped on the unwarranted open attack on Liu who was doing his job.

“We’re certain he is not politically naïve and we wish to find out what is his motive.”

The Petaling Jaya MP added that Hasaan Ali may just end up jeopardising PAS’s chance in Permatang Pasir if he continues down the same path.

Kit Siang warns open squabbling could turn Pakatan into one-term wonder

Lim wants all Pakatan Rakyat partners to show more cohesion and common sense of purpose. — File pic

By Leslie Lau
Consultant Editor

KUALA LUMPUR, Aug 6 — The DAP’s Lim Kit Siang today urged all Pakatan Rakyat (PR) partners to show more cohesion and common sense of purpose to strengthen public confidence, and avoid the kind of public quarrels which could result in the alliance becoming a “one-term wonder”.

His remarks show the measure of concern being felt by national PR leaders over the succession of squabbles between DAP and PAS which has damaged the credibility of PR state governments.

Selangor PAS chief Datuk Hassan Ali had openly called for his state executive councillor colleague Ronnie Liu from the DAP to be stripped of his portfolio following a dispute over a minor issue of unlawful beer seizures.

Last month, DAP had also threatened to pull out from the PAS-led Kedah PR state government over the issue of the relocation of an abattoir.

“All Pakatan Rakyat leaders of PKR, DAP and PAS must exercise responsibility and discipline to strengthen public confidence in the credibility, cohesion, integrity and common sense of purpose of Pakatan Rakyat if PR is not to end up as a one-term wonder.

“If a state exco member of a Pakatan Rakyat state government can publicly demand the removal of another state exco member from another Pakatan Rakyat component party from his portfolio, and be supported by the state Youth wing of that party to the extent of wanting to hold a public demonstration, then the same thing can be done by the other Pakatan Rakyat component parties,” said Lim.

Lim said the result of such open squabbling would be utter chaos and the PR alliance would be discredited.

PR leaders and component parties, instead of Barisan Nasional (BN), would then become PR’s own biggest enemies.

“It is imperative therefore that any unhappiness and dissatisfaction by any Pakatan Rakyat component party or leader must be raised and dealt with internally in the grouping.”

Umno and BN have in recent months been gradually chipping away at the level of public support which PR parties have been enjoying, largely due to open squabbling and a absence of a joint platform for voters to compare with what the ruling coalition has to offer.

Umno has also successfully used race and religious issues to drive a wedge between the more conservative factions in PAS and the more secular DAP.

The PR national leadership is now working feverishly towards fulfilling legal guidelines and registering the alliance officially to underline its commitment towards being a viable alternative to BN.

Datuk Zaid Ibrahim, the former Umno minister who joined PKR recently, has been given the task of coordinating activities of the joint PR secretariat.

It is understood that a series of discussions will soon be held for PR parties to come up with a common platform.

Alcohol ban: PAS to let state government sort out issue

By Adib Zalkapli

Tan Sri Khalid Ibrahim (left) attends the PAS Muktamar with other PR leaders. PAS today placed its faith in Khalid to resolve the ongoing alcohol ban issue. — Picture by Choo Choy May

KUALA LUMPUR, Aug 6 — PAS today announced that it would let the state government decide on the sale of alcoholic beverages in Muslim-majority areas in Selangor.

“At this stage, we at the central committee level are confident that the matter can be resolved by the state government,” said party secretary-general Datuk Mustafa Ali.

“We are confident that Tan Sri Khalid Ibrahim can handle the problem wisely,” he added.

On Tuesday, Selangor PAS chief and state executive councillor Datuk Hassan Ali demanded DAP's Ronnie Liu be stripped of his local council portfolio.

Hassan said that the decision was made by the state PAS after Liu ordered council officers to return the beer seized from a convenience store as local councils are not empowered to conduct such seizures.

“From the Islamic point of view, there is no blanket ban on the sale of alcohol,” said Mustafa.

When asked whether PAS endorses Hassan's demand for Liu to be reassigned, Mustafa said the matter did not arise.

“There is no need for Datuk Hassan Ali's explanation, this is not about individuals but it's about policy,” he said to a question on whether the central committee had sought an explanation from Hassan.

Mustafa added that disagreement among party leaders in Pakatan Rakyat-controlled state governments is normal.

“Look at Kedah, the problem raised by DAP was handled by state leaders wisely without the need for the central level to interfere,” said Mustafa, referring to Kedah DAP's threat to pull out of the state PR after disagreement with Mentri Besar Datuk Seri Azizan Razak.

“You can look at the latest development as a sign of disunity or you can interpret this as PR's wisdom in solving problems when the issue is over,” he added.

On allegations that Hassan did not consult the Selangor PAS liaison committee before calling for Liu's removal, Mustafa explained that the state Dewan Harian or management committee can act for the state liaison committee “on matters that require swift response.”

Shah Alam MP Khalid Samad today said that Hassan had not adhered to party procedure when calling for the reshuffle of state executive councillor.

“But on matters that require further discussion, they may be brought to the liaison committee,” added Mustafa.

elangor PAS chief under fire from own party

Khalid (left) has taken Hassan (right) to task in his dispute with Liu (centre).

By Neville Spykerman

SHAH ALAM, Aug 6 — The decision by Datuk Hassan Ali to call for DAP’s Ronnie Liu to be stripped off his local government portfolio is not sitting well even within his own party.

Shah Alam MP Khalid Samad said yesterday that contrary to his claims the PAS commissioner had no business making such a call without consulting the party state liaison committee.

During a press conference on Tuesday Hassan said the decision to call for Liu's removal was made by the party's Dewan Harian, which met on Monday.

However, Khalid said such a policy must be endorsed by the liaison committee, which is the highest decision-making body in Selangor PAS.

“The Dewan Harian only comprises appointed office bearers who are in charge of the day-to-day running of the party in each state.”

Hassan had also lashed out at his executive council colleague for “interfering” in the duties of enforcement officers who had seized beer from a 7-Eleven outlet which was located near a surau in Section 8, Shah Alam.

A decision was made to return the beer the next day because local authorities have no powers to confiscate beer and this had been confirmed by Shah Alam City Council (MBSA) mayor Mazalan Md Noor who said the legality of the seizure was questionable.

Meanwhile, two other PAS leaders who did attend Monday’s Dewan Harian meeting said the issue of calling Liu to be stripped of his exco portfolio was never discussed.

MBSA PAS councillor Izham Hashim said they were upset with Liu for reprimanding the MBSA officers directly instead of following protocol and allowing the mayor to discipline his own officers.

“We wanted to issue a caution to Liu for his conduct which we feel is unbecoming but I cannot remember anything being said about removing the local government exco from his portfolio.”

Another PAS leader, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Khalid was glaringly left out of Monday’s meeting.

“This is odd because he is the Shah Alam MP and the area where the beer waa seized falls under his jurisdiction.”

He added that he was surprised when he learned that Hassan had made the call for Liu to be stripped of his local government portfolio during the press conference.

“The issue was never discussed and we never agreed to call for such a move.”

Meanwhile, the move by Hassan has also caused a bigger rift between him and his Pakatan Rakyat colleagues.

A visibly upset state leader asked why Hassan was using the state secretariat to hold press conferences to attack his own exco colleagues.

“If he was expressing his party stand, why was he using state facilities?” she said.

MB imposes gag order, promises new alcohol-sale guidelines by Friday

Tan Sri Khalid Ibrahim promises to personally look into the problem By Neville Spykerman

SHAH ALAM, Aug 5- Selangor Mentri Besar today stepped in to calm the row between PAS and DAP by issuing a gag order on state executive councillors from commenting further about the sale of beer in Muslim majority areas until guidelines are issued.

Tan Sri Khalid Ibrahim said he will personally look into the problem and mini-guidelines would be issued by Friday.

In the meantime, state leaders are barred from speaking to the press.

“This is essentially to avoid further confusion on the issue which may cause unnecessary discomfort among Selangor's multiracial communities.”

He said the state had been holding discussions with various non-government organisations, residents associations and the business community on the issue.

“We are confident in coming out with an appropriate solution which is fair and which takes into account the needs of the public while respecting all cultures and religions.”

He sidestepped questions about calls from PAS Commissioner Datuk Hassan Ali for fellow exco member Ronnie Liu to relinquish his local government portfolio over his alleged mishandling of the issue.

“There will be no issue after the matter is resolved on Friday,” he said.

On Tuesday, Datuk Hassan Ali lashed out at Liu during a press conference for reprimanding a Shah Alam City Council (MBSA) officer who had order the seizure of beer from a 7-Eleven outlet in Section 8, Shah Alam on July 29.

A decision was made to return the beer because local councils had no authority to make the seizures.

Khaild repeatedly said ‘no comment’ to various related questions including whether Liu had exceeded his jurisdiction or whether Hassan was reprimanded for raising the issue in the press.

This is the second time that Khalid’s state exco has come under “friendly fire” from within Pakatan Rakyat (PR). During a recent sitting of the state assembly PKR’s Azmin Ali had also called on the mentri besar to reshuffle his exco.

04 August 2009 Oleh Zulkifli Noordin pada 6:33 PM 17 komentar

(Perang dah meletus. YB Datuk Dr. Hassan Ali v. YB Ronnie Liu)

Salam 2 all.

Belum pun reda isu YB Azmin Ali, Naib Presiden PKR merangkap Ahli Parlimen Gombak & ADUN Bukit Antarabangsa yang mendesak supaya barisan exco Kerajaan Selangor dirombak, kini meletus pula isu baru. Desakan YB Azmin tersebut dipercayai kerana terdapat persepsi dikalangan masyarakat umum khususnya dikalangan ahli perniagaan di Selangor bahawa kalau mahu mendapat sesuatu perkara bergerak di Selangor, "jumpalah dua tiga Exco ni, sure lulus punya!!".

Hari ini Pesuruhjaya PAS Selangor yang juga ADUN Gombak Setia merangkap Exco Hal Ehwal Islam & Infrastruktur Kerajaan Negeri Selangor, YB Datuk Dr Hassan Ali dalam kenyataannya secara terbuka mendesak supaya YB Ronnie Liu (DAP) digugurkan daripada barisan Exco kerana banyak tindakan beliau menimbulkan masalah kepada masyarakat umum.

YB Dr Hassan Ali secara khusus merujuk kepada tindakan YB Ronnie yang sering campur tangan dalam urusan pihak berkuasa tempatan. Kenyataan terbuka YB Dr. Hassan Ali itu berpunca daripada tindakan YB Ronnie mengarahkan penguatkuasa Majlis Bandaraya Shah Alam (MBSA) dan Majlis Perbandaran Subang jaya (MPSJ) memulangkan minuman keras yang telah dirampas daripada peniaga-peniaga yang melanggar peraturan.

Baru-baru ini YB Wee Choo Keong (PKR-Wangsa Maju) mendedahkan bagaimana terdapat ahli Exco yang dikaitkan dengan kumpulan samseng hingga ada yang mendakwa pejabat Exco tersebut turut dijadikan tempat pertemuan dengan kumpulan-kumpulan samseng tertentu. Akibat kenyataan itu, YB Ronnie Liu telah membidas YB Wee Choo Keong walaupun YB Wee langsung tidak menyebut nama beliau atau mana-mana ahli Exco.

YB Ronnie Liu juga mempunyai kes pertuduhan jenayah di Mahkamah kerana didakwa menghalang penjawat awam dalam satu operasi cegah maksiat di sebuah hotel di Subang Jaya pada tahun 2007.

Melihat kepada keadaan ini, saya mengambil pendirian bersetuju dengan desakan YB Datuk Dr. Hassan Ali supaya YB Ronnie Liu segera meletakkan jawatan. Kehadiran beliau kini adalah satu liabiliti kepada Kerajaan Pakatan Rakyat di Selangor. Sekiranya beliau enggan meletak jawatan, saya mendesak YAB Tan Sri Khalid Ibrahim, Menteri Besar Selangor supaya mengambil langkah segera menggugurkan YB Ronnie Liu daripada barisan Exco Kerajaan Selangor, sebelum rakyat mengambil tindakan menggugurkan Kerajaan Pakatan Rakyat pula.

Zulkifli Bin Noordin

Zulkifli Noordin an MP for PKR a component party of the opposition is a person whose ideas I dislike. He seems to forget that the great Avicenna or Ibnu Sina dies at the age of 56 after a night of whoring and drunkard merriment. He is a muktazillah and so is Al farabi and many others during the reign of caliph Ma'mun of Abbasid dynasty. During the mamonite period which was the apex of muslim enlightenment the Caliph was a Muktazillah or rationalist.Many sunni jurist was jail which include Iman Ahmad Ibnu Hambal but now all these Muktazillah are regarded as Muslims while during their life they were despised and regard as heretic. What is my point ?, it is just to point out differences of belief should not be discourage as long as the faith is intact.Islam is here not to punish but to be a beacon of salvation to human race the thing is what type of Islam? Islam as Zulkifli or as rationalist and humanist the Muktazillah was? Why can't we embrace all as long as the value of Islam or Muslim is not tarnish for Muslim means one whom surrender to the will of God not to Muhammad pbuh but God!


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