This article is what Ive been trying to say to the Muslims that if you find fault with other rreligion just like the late Ahmad Deedat did, they can find fault with you. It doesn't matter if they skewered everything up and took every word out of context but it is there and difficult to deny that is why there is no supremacy in any religion but discord if this was let to be debated by insane man of clothes be it Muslim Christians or other faith
03/06: The Anti Jihadist Responds to Mr. Farouk
Category: General
Posted by: Raja Petra
Anti-Jihadist
I’m humbled by the ironic honour of having aroused the indignation of one Farouk Peru. Of all the dozens and dozens of comments left at the original post in question, he has decided to respond at length to mine.Very well; this battle is joined. I will now respond to Mr. Farouk and the various issues/charges he has written about.My response:1. First out the gate, my opponent is correct. Islam is not just the Quran. The Quran cannot be understood in a vacuum. Islam can and must be judged by other sources besides the Quran, such as the Hadith, the actions of its followers, and most of all, the actions of its founder. This range of sources can give critical insight into the worthiness of the ideology that Mr. Farouk holds so dear.2. Mr. Farouk talks about (in his words) the ‘apostasy law.’ This is an interesting euphemism for a barbaric law that calls for the outright murder of people solely on a religious pretext. In a massive ongoing and unchallenged violation of human rights, ‘only’ six Islamic countries officially engage in the execution of apostates. One of these six is Saudi Arabia, the heart of Islam and the location of the two holiest sites to Muslims, and also the home of some of the most revered and highest authorities in Islam. These clerics and other Saudi scholars have always called for apostates to be put to death if they do not recant their kafir beliefs. What a delightful state of affairs this is! As for the other 51 countries in Dar al Islam, it is a fact that apostates in virtually every Muslim country face sanctions of some kind, official and/or unofficial (including Malaysia). These sanctions against apostates range from fines, imprisonment with or without trial, torture, discrimination, forced exile, financial ruin from loss of livelihoods, loss of property, death threats and intimidation. Clearly, being an apostate from Islam in an Islamic state is very dangerous indeed. This universal Muslim persecution of its apostates exists for a reason. The teachings of Islam are very explicit on this point. According to Bukhari (volume 9, book 88, no. 6922), Islam’s prophet ordered flatly, “Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” Also, there is another hadith text that says, “It is not lawful to kill a man who is a Muslim except for one of the three reasons: Kufr (disbelief) after accepting Islam.....” (Abu Dawud). Perhaps the Quran doesn’t explicitly call for apostates to be murdered, but the actions of Mohammed, his example, clearly show otherwise. In addition, all five major schools of Islamic jurisprudence agree that a sane male apostate must be executed. A female apostate, it turns out, gets a break. Some schools say female apostates should only be imprisoned for life.3. Now, on to Islam’s bloody-minded manual for endless war, the Quran. I submit these Quranic verses for your consideration:Everything Those Infidels Have Everywhere In the World Already Belongs to the Muslims; Take ItQur’an 33.27 And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things.Qur’an 21:44 Do they see Us advancing, gradually reducing the land (in their control), curtailing its borders on all sides? It is they who will be overcome. About Those Annoying Non-Believers (Infidels, Pagans, Jews, Christians, etc.)Qur’an 9:123 “murder them and treat them harshly” Qur’an 3:56 “As for those disbelieving infidels, I will punish them with a terrible agony in this world and the next. They have no one to help or save them.”Qur’an 8:12 cp. 8:60 “Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers”; “smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them”Qur’an 2:191 “...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them”And Terrorize and Terrorize Those InfidelsSura 3:151 Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers for that they joined companions with Allah for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!Sura 8:60 Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power including steeds of war to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides whom ye may not know but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you and ye shall not be treated unjustly.I could go on, but you can see the entire list here. There are hundreds more verses just like these. I’m positive that Mr. Farouk will argue that these verses are ‘taken out of context’, or aren’t translated correctly, or some other such nonsense. Since I’m just an ignorant infidel, how dare I judge his precious Quran? Well, judge it I do and judge it I will continue to do. And I am not alone in this; that I can promise you.4. Mr. Farouk brings up Mr. Hitler, whose tome continues to sell rather well in the Muslim world to this day. Herr Hitler was also a good friend of the Mufti of Jerusalem, and of course the instigator of the (first) Holocaust. Iran, a Muslim religious dictatorship and friend of Malaysia, has repeatedly stated its wish to destroy the ‘Zionist entity’ and is diligently working towards the development of weapons that will make the next Holocaust possible. Of course, these developments don’t seem to concern Muslims very much—instead, they are much more likely to fly into a murderous rage over some cartoons.5. Islam is the religion that justifies in its name some of the most horrible inhumanities imaginable, such as these:In Saudi Arabia:• Women must cover themselves from head to toe in public or else. • Non-Islamic religious teachings or places of worship are not allowed. • The possession of alcohol is punishable by death. • The hands of thieves are amputated.In Iran:• Do not take pictures of regime property or else. • Members of the Baha'i faith are openly discriminated against. • Adultery is punished by stoning to death. • Homosexuals are publicly hanged.Ghazi al-Qusaibi, the former Saudi ambassador to London and currently a senior minister in the Saudi Government, says “flogging, stoning, and amputations are, in Muslim eyes, the core of the Islamic faith.”Call me judgmental if that pleases you, but these actions don’t seem like very ‘godly’ to me. How can any amount of (alleged) Islamic charitable works make good horrors such as these? And how many Muslims dare criticize these actions of their fellow co-religionists like the ones listed here? Do you condemn these actions, Mr. Farouk? The silence is deafening.6. As usual, Mr. Farouk plays the ‘race’ card upon anyone that attacks his ‘faith’. So, I’m a racist by attacking Islam, even though “Islam” is not, repeat not, a race (and this even Mr. Farouk freely admits). Is fascism a race as well? Plus, he thinks I actually want Muslims to have or enforce their barbaric apostasy laws. Wow, what a novel argument for an esteemed scholar like Mr. Farouk to present! Why not just accuse me of supporting various Islamic terrorist attacks like Bali, London, Madrid, 9-11, etc. etc while you’re at it. Cognitive dissonance on an epic scale.7. Usually, the accusations of being a ‘Nazi’ or ‘fascist’ follow almost immediately before or after we’re called ‘racists.’ It’s all part of the script when Muslims respond to any attacks on their beliefs. And here, Mr. Farouk does not disappoint. Ad hominem attacks do not an argument make. But what else can we expect from the self-appointed defenders of Islam?I think that about covers my rebuttal of Mr. Farouk’s rebuttal. And yes, I’ve perused Mr. Farouk’s websites, which proclaim to the skies that Islam is supposedly all about freedom. So, if Islam is supposed to be all about ‘freedom’, why are the Muslim countries among the least free in the world? Why do Muslims demand freedom for themselves and deny it to others? Why have the shariah courts of Malaysia, over 50 years, only allowed one person to officially leave Islam (and a dead woman at that)?“By their fruits ye shall know them,” says the Bible. And Islam’s bitter fruits are out in the open, for all to see.
03/06: The Anti Jihadist Responds to Mr. Farouk
Category: General
Posted by: Raja Petra
Anti-Jihadist
I’m humbled by the ironic honour of having aroused the indignation of one Farouk Peru. Of all the dozens and dozens of comments left at the original post in question, he has decided to respond at length to mine.Very well; this battle is joined. I will now respond to Mr. Farouk and the various issues/charges he has written about.My response:1. First out the gate, my opponent is correct. Islam is not just the Quran. The Quran cannot be understood in a vacuum. Islam can and must be judged by other sources besides the Quran, such as the Hadith, the actions of its followers, and most of all, the actions of its founder. This range of sources can give critical insight into the worthiness of the ideology that Mr. Farouk holds so dear.2. Mr. Farouk talks about (in his words) the ‘apostasy law.’ This is an interesting euphemism for a barbaric law that calls for the outright murder of people solely on a religious pretext. In a massive ongoing and unchallenged violation of human rights, ‘only’ six Islamic countries officially engage in the execution of apostates. One of these six is Saudi Arabia, the heart of Islam and the location of the two holiest sites to Muslims, and also the home of some of the most revered and highest authorities in Islam. These clerics and other Saudi scholars have always called for apostates to be put to death if they do not recant their kafir beliefs. What a delightful state of affairs this is! As for the other 51 countries in Dar al Islam, it is a fact that apostates in virtually every Muslim country face sanctions of some kind, official and/or unofficial (including Malaysia). These sanctions against apostates range from fines, imprisonment with or without trial, torture, discrimination, forced exile, financial ruin from loss of livelihoods, loss of property, death threats and intimidation. Clearly, being an apostate from Islam in an Islamic state is very dangerous indeed. This universal Muslim persecution of its apostates exists for a reason. The teachings of Islam are very explicit on this point. According to Bukhari (volume 9, book 88, no. 6922), Islam’s prophet ordered flatly, “Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” Also, there is another hadith text that says, “It is not lawful to kill a man who is a Muslim except for one of the three reasons: Kufr (disbelief) after accepting Islam.....” (Abu Dawud). Perhaps the Quran doesn’t explicitly call for apostates to be murdered, but the actions of Mohammed, his example, clearly show otherwise. In addition, all five major schools of Islamic jurisprudence agree that a sane male apostate must be executed. A female apostate, it turns out, gets a break. Some schools say female apostates should only be imprisoned for life.3. Now, on to Islam’s bloody-minded manual for endless war, the Quran. I submit these Quranic verses for your consideration:Everything Those Infidels Have Everywhere In the World Already Belongs to the Muslims; Take ItQur’an 33.27 And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things.Qur’an 21:44 Do they see Us advancing, gradually reducing the land (in their control), curtailing its borders on all sides? It is they who will be overcome. About Those Annoying Non-Believers (Infidels, Pagans, Jews, Christians, etc.)Qur’an 9:123 “murder them and treat them harshly” Qur’an 3:56 “As for those disbelieving infidels, I will punish them with a terrible agony in this world and the next. They have no one to help or save them.”Qur’an 8:12 cp. 8:60 “Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers”; “smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them”Qur’an 2:191 “...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them”And Terrorize and Terrorize Those InfidelsSura 3:151 Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers for that they joined companions with Allah for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!Sura 8:60 Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power including steeds of war to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides whom ye may not know but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you and ye shall not be treated unjustly.I could go on, but you can see the entire list here. There are hundreds more verses just like these. I’m positive that Mr. Farouk will argue that these verses are ‘taken out of context’, or aren’t translated correctly, or some other such nonsense. Since I’m just an ignorant infidel, how dare I judge his precious Quran? Well, judge it I do and judge it I will continue to do. And I am not alone in this; that I can promise you.4. Mr. Farouk brings up Mr. Hitler, whose tome continues to sell rather well in the Muslim world to this day. Herr Hitler was also a good friend of the Mufti of Jerusalem, and of course the instigator of the (first) Holocaust. Iran, a Muslim religious dictatorship and friend of Malaysia, has repeatedly stated its wish to destroy the ‘Zionist entity’ and is diligently working towards the development of weapons that will make the next Holocaust possible. Of course, these developments don’t seem to concern Muslims very much—instead, they are much more likely to fly into a murderous rage over some cartoons.5. Islam is the religion that justifies in its name some of the most horrible inhumanities imaginable, such as these:In Saudi Arabia:• Women must cover themselves from head to toe in public or else. • Non-Islamic religious teachings or places of worship are not allowed. • The possession of alcohol is punishable by death. • The hands of thieves are amputated.In Iran:• Do not take pictures of regime property or else. • Members of the Baha'i faith are openly discriminated against. • Adultery is punished by stoning to death. • Homosexuals are publicly hanged.Ghazi al-Qusaibi, the former Saudi ambassador to London and currently a senior minister in the Saudi Government, says “flogging, stoning, and amputations are, in Muslim eyes, the core of the Islamic faith.”Call me judgmental if that pleases you, but these actions don’t seem like very ‘godly’ to me. How can any amount of (alleged) Islamic charitable works make good horrors such as these? And how many Muslims dare criticize these actions of their fellow co-religionists like the ones listed here? Do you condemn these actions, Mr. Farouk? The silence is deafening.6. As usual, Mr. Farouk plays the ‘race’ card upon anyone that attacks his ‘faith’. So, I’m a racist by attacking Islam, even though “Islam” is not, repeat not, a race (and this even Mr. Farouk freely admits). Is fascism a race as well? Plus, he thinks I actually want Muslims to have or enforce their barbaric apostasy laws. Wow, what a novel argument for an esteemed scholar like Mr. Farouk to present! Why not just accuse me of supporting various Islamic terrorist attacks like Bali, London, Madrid, 9-11, etc. etc while you’re at it. Cognitive dissonance on an epic scale.7. Usually, the accusations of being a ‘Nazi’ or ‘fascist’ follow almost immediately before or after we’re called ‘racists.’ It’s all part of the script when Muslims respond to any attacks on their beliefs. And here, Mr. Farouk does not disappoint. Ad hominem attacks do not an argument make. But what else can we expect from the self-appointed defenders of Islam?I think that about covers my rebuttal of Mr. Farouk’s rebuttal. And yes, I’ve perused Mr. Farouk’s websites, which proclaim to the skies that Islam is supposedly all about freedom. So, if Islam is supposed to be all about ‘freedom’, why are the Muslim countries among the least free in the world? Why do Muslims demand freedom for themselves and deny it to others? Why have the shariah courts of Malaysia, over 50 years, only allowed one person to officially leave Islam (and a dead woman at that)?“By their fruits ye shall know them,” says the Bible. And Islam’s bitter fruits are out in the open, for all to see.
posted by wan zaharizan b wan zan at 2:55 AM
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