Here is a good article I hope the readers just read it and understand the complexities and mistakes many muslim do


Views on 'Syariah'... the word, the meaning and other ideas



Posted by kasee
Thursday, 24 April 2008
I have no problems with christians using the word 'Allah' in their translation of the bible, as it is argued that the word means 'god' derived from the arabic language. Justified intentions for such 'uproar' of the 'issue' by muslims and christians alike is debatable.I would also like to point out that 'syariah' as in Syariah Law, also comes from the arabic language and isn't necessarily exclusive to Islam. I'm unsure of what its literal translation is, but from wikipedia.org, it states: "There is no strictly static codified set of laws of sharia. Sharia is more of a system of how law ought to serve humanity, a consensus of the unified spirit, based on the Qur'an (the religious text of Islam), hadith (sayings and doings of Muhammad and his companions), Ijma (consensus), Qiyas (reasoning by analogy) and centuries of debate, interpretation and precedent."The 'syariah system' may have its origins in Islam (Qur'an & hadith), but its concepts and principles are universal (consensus, reasoning by analogy, debate, interpretation & precedent). Similarly to 'Islamic' banking which is developed based on the principles in Islam, but is universally appealing that even non-muslims use Islamic banking. Even the many fields of Islamic studies which includes theology, mysticism, philosophy, sociology, science, jurisprudence, art, literature and many more are universal in nature. These fields of studies are not 'Islamic'-specific but are broad human studies and search of knowledge. It's classified as Islamic studies just because they are done by muslims or founded by muslims. Whereas they have counterparts from people of other religion pursuing the same field of study. It is a known fact that modern mathematics, medicine and other fields of science have their foundations or have contributions from muslim academics and scholars of times past. My point is not that these field of studies have to be credited to Islam, but that the studies of these fields were in the spirit of humanity; knowledge to be shared for all humanity. Please look up 'Islamic studies' in wikipedia.org to find out more details.Many more 'terms' found in Islam are merely words in arabic, yet the definition behind it, the principles that govern it, the concepts that shape it; can be beyond any 'religion'. Syariah Law, Civil Law, Common Law; the name doesn't matter. What matters is the system and whether it is fair and just to all. Syariah Law is not merely about Islamic divorce and Islamic family law, or just deals with sex out of wedlock, not fasting during Ramadhan, apostasy; all issues related to muslims. It is much more than that. There should not be any problem with there being only 'one' Court of Law in Malaysia, but it can be divided into many divisions such as criminal, commercial, family, muslim-related etc. As I've said before; consensus, reasoning by analogy, debate, interpretation & precedent; can be used when deriving and defining the law and its system. Whether to term it Syariah Law, Civil Law, In-Law, My-Law... is besides the point.The process of deriving and defining such laws should not just involve muslim scholars and academics, but also non-muslim scholars and academics; representing any or every religion, level of society and related fields of interest. Use & apply reasoning & precedent; debate the matter and issue; interpret with wisdom; and decide on consensus. One Court of Law, but separate clauses in the law for muslims or non-muslims if applicable. This may seem as practicing double standards, but I think it's fair considering matters like alcohol drinking, gambling, sex, adultery, divorce and so on, where people of other religion may have different principles, views and ideas on fairness, justice, enforcement or morality. keyword: consensus. Such issues like hudud or not, keyword: debate, interpret & consensus.Apostasy in Islam is a sensitive matter that has been politicized as a religious issue. However, I view it as a personal matter between the apostate and God. In Malaysia, it never really was a religious issue, but a legislative, authoritative and administrative matter. Why? Because the issue originates from someone wanting to change the religion stated on ones identity card (administrative) so that one does not fall under the authority and purview of Islamic law (legislative) and enforcement (authoritative) when dealing with marriage, divorce and so on. If one does not wish to be a muslim; after counsel with an Imam or someone with the right knowledge and wisdom (not 'brain-washing' or 'degrading the person' type of session); then let it be. Trust and have faith in God. What is meant to be will be. In the end, all shall be judged by God. The fact of the matter is, don't be overzealous in brandishing or harping on the 'name'or 'term' just for the sake of promoting 'Islam'. Neither should you be afraid or overreact in such negativity to such 'name' or 'term' just because its 'Islamic' nature. 'Syariah' is just an arabic word. Seek knowledge and apply wisdom. Take the good; leave the bad. Positive over negative. Is it really that hard?I hope someone who is more knowledgeable and a lot wiser than I am, can expand further on my arguments, views and ideas with more facts, examples and further discussions. To agree or to disagree, it doesn't matter as long as it is constructive.By backs, just another Malaysian

Aghajari's death sentence sparked protests and a review

SENTENCED TO DEATH
Hashem Aghajari, a history professor in Tehran (pictured), was sentenced to death for apostasy in Nov 2002
He had said Muslims should not follow clerics "like monkeys"
The sentence sparked off a month of student protests and was quashed by Iran's Supreme Court
Abdul Rahman began a new life in Italy after his trial for apostasy in Kabul collapsed

This is an article written by someone but sadly i cant comment on the website as I am considered a bit of a crackpot so my comment ont this article is below it

Monday, 21 April 2008
(BBC News) - I was staggered to learn that the Quran does not say anything about punishing apostates and that its proponents use two hadiths instead to support their view.
There's a widespread belief that the penalty for leaving Islam is death - hence, perhaps, the killing of a British teacher last week. But Shiraz Maher believes attitudes may be softening. Ziya Miral's parents disowned him when he converted from Islam to Christianity. "They said 'go away, you're not our son.' They told people I died in an accident rather than having the shame of their son leaving Islam."

It's too easy to say this is just a cultural problem
Shiraz MaherBorn and raised in Turkey, he decided to convert to Christianity after moving to university. He knew telling his parents would be a difficult moment even though they're not particularly observant Muslims, and he planned to break the news to them gently. In the end, events overtook him. Before heading back to Turkey for the holidays, Ziya briefly visited a Christian summer camp where he was filmed eating a bowl of spaghetti.
They kept saying: 'The punishment is death, do you know the punishment is death?'
Sophia on her parents' reaction to her converting to ChristianityThe first his parents heard of his conversion was when they saw Ziya on the national news being described as "an evil missionary" intent on "brainwashing" Turkish children. His parents decided they would rather tell people that he was dead than acknowledge he was a Christian. And Ziya, who now lives in the UK, is not alone in this experience. Sophia, which is not her real name, faced similar pressures when she decided to become a Christian. Coming from a Pakistani background but living in east London, 28-year-old Sophia spoke about the extreme cultural pressures her family put her under.


"They kept saying: 'The punishment is death, do you know the punishment is death?'" In the end, Sophia ran away from home. Her mother tracked her down and turned up at her baptism. "I got up to get baptised, that's when my mother got up, ran to the front and tried to pull me out of the water. "My brother was really angry. He reacted and phoned me on my mobile and just said: 'I'm coming down to burn that church.'" For Sophia and Ziya, a lot of the prejudice they faced seemed to be borne out of cultural ideas, which are particularly ingrained in the South Asian community relating to notions of family honour.

Aghajari's death sentence sparked protests and a reviewBut it's too easy to say this is just a cultural problem. Dig a little deeper and you find that there is a theological argument which advocates the death penalty for apostates, which has serious implications for British society. Last week, British teacher Daud Hassan Ali, 64, was shot dead in Somalia. His widow, Margaret Ali, said her husband was targeted by Islamists who "believe it is ok to kill any man who was born into Islam and left the faith". Those renouncing their faith for atheism or agnosticism are viewed in a similar way to those who adopt another faith. A poll conducted by the Policy Exchange last year suggested that over a third of young British Muslims believe that the death penalty should apply for apostasy. Until recently, I would have shared that view, but since personally rejecting extremism myself, I've been re-examining the issues which I once regarded as conclusive. Discretion I was staggered to learn that the Quran does not say anything about punishing apostates and that its proponents use two hadiths instead to support their view. Hadiths are the recorded traditions and sayings of the Prophet which, in addition to the Quran, provide an additional source of Islamic law. The hadiths which relate to apostasy are linguistically ambiguous and open to interpretation. Distinguished scholars told me that the hadiths actually speak about a death penalty for treason, not apostasy. And even then, they stressed the punishment is discretionary.
"I believe the classical law of apostasy in Islam is wrong and based on a misunderstanding"
Usama Hassan

Scientist and imamDr Hisham Hellyer is a Fellow of the Oxford Centre for Islamic Studies at University of Oxford, and has researched classical Islamic law. He believes the death penalty punishment is no longer applicable and should be suspended under certain circumstances. Usama Hassan, a Cambridge-educated scientist and an imam, goes further and says the classical scholars were wrong in how they interpreted the Quran. He is unequivocal in denouncing those who advocate the death penalty. "I believe the classical law of apostasy in Islam is wrong and based on a misunderstanding of the original sources, because the Quran and Hadith don't actually talk about a death penalty for apostasy." Last year Egypt's Grand Mufti, Ali Gomaa, unequivocally told the Washington Post that the death penalty for apostasy simply no longer applies. It provoked a flurry of debate in Egypt and the wider Middle East. Traitor The idea of killing apostates has become a resurgent theme in recent years, a fact closely-related to the increasing politicisation of Islam since 9/11. It epitomises the "us and them" mentality felt by many Muslims between themselves and the West. And there's an uncomfortable conclusion to all this.
"Muslim attitudes towards apostasy are a metaphor for the wider struggle taking place within Islam"
Shiraz Maher

If there is a death penalty for treason, then who defines what treason is? Earlier this year a group of men from Birmingham pleaded guilty to charges of conspiring to kidnap and behead a British Muslim solider because they regarded him as a traitor. Joining the British army was to them treason against Islam. So while the debate surrounding one aspect of apostasy continues, it is simultaneously throwing up an entirely new series of challenges around other issues including what should be considered treason against Islam. Muslim attitudes towards apostasy are a metaphor for the wider struggle taking place within Islam, between those who argue for a progressive form of Islam and those who argue for more dogmatic interpretations. Attitudes to apostasy may be a useful barometer for judging where it's headed.

Look at some who commented

In truth, the Hadeeth of the Prophet is REVELATIONS from ALLAH. A Muslim becomes a Muslim because he acceptd and beliefs in the Quran and also the Hadeeth. A Muslim who rejects the hadeeth is no more a Muslim. I don't understand how the writer of this article can be so ignorant?

written by cabearth, April 21, 2008 21:39:23

have a question to ask, is it ok to have a person remain in a religion he or she no longer believes or has faith in for the purpose of family honour whereas this person may not fulfill the requirements of the religion wholeheartedly resulting in him or her not having satisfaction of being with God or is it better to have them explore and experience his or her own way of reaching God for as long as they do not harm others in their ways of reaching God who by the way is the same for all , just that God appears to each one of us in different way? Think about it!

please visit http://rayfire-viewpoint.blogspot.com/

written by rayfire, April 21, 2008 16:29:25

Surah 2: 98 – “Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers.” Surah 9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the non-believers wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. When someone carries out the above, he is obeying the koran. That is the difference

Surah 2: 98 – “Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers.” Surah 9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the non-believers wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. When someone carries out the above, he is obeying the koran. That is the difference

written by chanatak, April 21, 2008 18:58:44

"...Surah 9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the non-believers wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. When someone carries out the above, he is obeying the koran..." chanatak, your knowledge of Islam is very impressive indeed, not unlike that possessed by many in MT who are easily aroused when an article on Islam is published. And this has not changed, at least not in the last 12 months when I posted the comments below in response to one posted by theantijihadist: There is a technique among readers of the Quran in which a verse is lifted from the text and used on their own, completely isolated from its context. Such a technique have been in use by both non-Muslims (who are eager to criticise Islam) and Muslims (who are eager to find a pillar to hide from) to justify their views. Perhaps, I can best illustrate this technique by quoting a statement from Peter Drucker on the subject of Theory X in his book “Management”. On page 228, he says that “…One can kill a master, but one cannot oust him..” Tell this to any Indon illegal immigrant at a construction site, and he will conclude that Peter Drucker encourages killing or that it is alright to kill because Drucker said so. Tell that to any manager, and most will ask, “In what context did Drucker say that?” written by nanakassim, April 21, 2008 20:12:55
"...Surah 9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the non-believers wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. When someone carries out the above, he is obeying the koran..." chanatak, your knowledge of Islam is very impressive indeed, not unlike that possessed by many in MT who are easily aroused when an article on Islam is published. And this has not changed, at least not in the last 12 months when I posted the comments below in response to one posted by theantijihadist: There is a technique among readers of the Quran in which a verse is lifted from the text and used on their own, completely isolated from its context. Such a technique have been in use by both non-Muslims (who are eager to criticise Islam) and Muslims (who are eager to find a pillar to hide from) to justify their views. Perhaps, I can best illustrate this technique by quoting a statement from Peter Drucker on the subject of Theory X in his book “Management”. On page 228, he says that “…One can kill a master, but one cannot oust him..” Tell this to any Indon illegal immigrant at a construction site, and he will conclude that Peter Drucker encourages killing or that it is alright to kill because Drucker said so. Tell that to any manager, and most will ask, “In what context did Drucker say that?”

written by nanakassim, April 21, 2008 20:12:55

You may wonder why I paste this article and the comments made. For one thing I want the readers to be aware the seemingly use of the verses of the quran by the Muslim to give credence to their point of view although wrong. They to me are the same with Gert Wilder the dutch parliamentarian who produce fitna. He uses the verses as the Muslim do but because he is not a muslim we condemn him. Open your eyes please my malay muslim friend! Let's go to the purported hadiths as describe by cabearth. Yes, the Quran if I am not mistaken did say the Muhammad is a reveleation but what? his word or he himself. In the last sermon he gave as reported by a hadiths, he says those who follow the quran and my sunnah will never go astray. Noted not my hadiths but my Sunnah. So what is sunnah?, it is just not the saying (hadiths) but he himself as a whole. His attributes of Amanah( trust), Tabligh, Benar( Siddique) and Hikmah(bijaksana) are attributes which we should follow sadly, there is no hikmah in intrpretating the Quran. There is a lot of Hafiz but Ahli Tafsir is lacking what we have is parrotting and that is sad. What nanakasim, chanatak and rayfire says is not wrong but what is sad their intrepretation is literal and thus is the same as Gert Wilder. The Quran is not written in a chronological order. We have first to identify whether it is Makiyah or Madiniyah surah. It is important for Makiyah surah would always deal with faith but Madiniyah surah are more about laws as by then the Muslims has establish a nation.

The surah stated above, I believe is Madiniyah thus what it says about the enemies of Islam must be read in that context. We must remember we were always in the state of war thus we must look that ayat in that perspective. Some will argue that the ayat of the Quran is timeless, true, but then it must be understood in the right context. If we blame Girt Wilder for not understanding the Quran we too are wrong , for we intrepret the Quran without hikmah as reuqired by us. It is a shame indeed!

Moroccan Jewish farmer Jean-Yves Yoel Chriqui at his farm in Agadir.Photo: AFP

Hi guess what, this anger by the malays take the cake of stupidity! You might be angry with me you might not but let's read the news first!


Not in our backyard, villagers demand

Posted by kasee
Thursday, 10 April 2008
(NST) SHAH ALAM: About 200 people yesterday gathered in front of the Sultan Salahuddin Abdul Aziz Shah building, where the menteri besar's office is located, to protest against the state government's move in approving the RM100 million modern pig-farming project in Kuala Langat.

The protesters, residents of Kampung Tumbuk Darat, Tanjung Sepat, Tanjung Laut, Kampung Layang, Kundang and Kampung Indah, gathered from 10.30am, carrying banners to vent their anger over the decision. All the villages are located near the proposed project in Ladang Tumbuk.One of the protesters, Mohamad Tarmudi Tushiran, said many objected to the project on grounds of pollution and fear that it may spread vector-borne diseases, such as the Japanese Encephalitis outbreak in Bukit Pelandok a few years back. He claimed that small-scale pig farming had been going on for decades."We are worried that once the project takes off, the pig population will increase. This will aggravate the pollution further. We must also put up with the stench from the farm."
Tarmudi, who is also the Ladang Tumbuk village head, said tourism in Morib coastal areas as well as in Kelanang would also be affected given their proximity to what would be the biggest pig farm in the state.He also handed over a memorandum from the affected residents to Menteri Besar Tan Sri Khalid Ibrahim's political secretary, Nik Nazmi Nik Ahmad, calling for the cancellation or relocation of the project to Pulau Ketam. -- Bernama

let's go to this wonderful news!

Pig Farm Bloom in Muslim Morocco

April 1, 2008 - 10:08AM
Shunned by most Muslim countries where pork consumption is a religious taboo, pig farming is booming in Morocco thanks to a growing tourist industry and pragmatic breeders.
"If there's tourism, it would be better to have pigs," said Said Samouk, 39, who raises 250 porkers at his farm 28 kilometres (17 miles) from the seaside town of Agadir.
After being battered by a wave of bird flu, he launched a pig operation 20 years ago in partnership with an elderly Frenchman.
Today, Samouk spins dreams of doubling his production within three years to help meet the demands of some 10 million tourists expected to visit Morocco in 2010 - up from 7.5 million who flocked to the north African country in 2007.
"I'm a practising Muslim. I don't eat pork and I don't drink alcohol but it's just a breeding operation like any other and no imam has ever reprimanded me for it," he said of raising pigs -- whose consumption is prohibited in both Islam and Judaism.
Outlawed in Algeria, Mauritania and Libya, pig farming is nonetheless authorised in Tunisia as in Morocco, to cater to the flocks of European and other non-Muslim tourists who head to north Africa's spectacular beaches and deserts.
"Our clientele is 98 percent European. They want bacon for breakfast, ham for lunch and pork chops for dinner," said Ahmad Bartoul, a buyer for a large Agadir hotel. Signs are posted on buffet tables to avoid any confusion about the meat's origin.
Morocco's swine industry comprises some 5,000 pigs raised on seven farms located near Agadir, Casablanca and the north-central city of Taza. The breeders include a Christian, two Jews and four Muslims.
Annual production is currently estimated at 270 tonnes of meat, bringing in some 12 million dirhams (1.6 million dollars) in revenue.
The breeders include Jean Yves Yoel Chriquia, a 32-year-old Jew who owns the country's main pork processing factory along with a farm of 1000 pigs. Chriquia also buys pigs from Samouk and another local farmer at 22 dirhams a kilo.
Four times a month, he goes to the slaughter house in Agadir -- but must enter from a door other than that used for deliveries of meat that is halal, or authorised under Islam.
"We have a special place for this sort of slaughter. After cutting up the meat and getting the veterinarian's stamp, we transport it to the factory and put it in cold storage," Yoel said.
Almost 80 percent of his products are earmarked for hotels in Agadir and Marrakech. The rest heads to supermarkets and butchers -- and to feed some 220 Chinese workers building a nearby motorway.
"My wife was certain we would never find pork because we were in a Muslim country," said French retiree Bernard Samoyeau, as he ordered pork at a butcher in Agadir. "We have been pleasantly surprised."
Yoel is also pleased.
"We have more than doubled our sales in three years and it's starting to snowball. But since we rely on tourism, we must be careful," he said.
The Moroccan farmer speaks from experience: the 1990 Gulf war, the 2001 attacks on New York and Washington, and the 2003 invasion of Iraq ultimately forced him to shutter his last business burdened by 2.8 million dirhams of unpaid bills.
Three years ago, he opened up a new company that employs 31 people.
"Hotels all over Morocco are calling me up for deliveries, but for the time being I can't respond to all the demands. We're getting there, little by little," Yoel said.
Nor does he see a conflict between his job and his Jewish faith.
"Religion is a private matter. What I do is just another way to earn a living and my rabbi has never said anything about it," he said.
AFP

So what gives really? I have always told and I believe sincerely that it is not a crime to keep pigs for commercial purposes, it is only forbidden to consume it or touch it if it is wet. It is not even HARAM unlike liquor. But sadly the Malays knowing that liquor is haram in fact a great sin still could close one eye to those who drank but become hysterical when it comes to Pigs or Dogs. I do not understand? I just wonder aloud at this puzzle with amusement and sometime with disdain.

Not i do not consume pork but I have a high regard for all living things for they are all creatures of God and since we pride ourselves as the 'khalifah' we should show the same respect to these animals and act as the khalifah or guardian as required. We took great pride in showing and baying that as a Muslim we should have high ideals but this glib is a sore point that need to be corrected. What Selangor is proposing is a hight tech husbandry with the state of the art technology so that the pig farming in Malaysia could be revolutionise. The monies is not the state coffers but from those entrepreneurs who show wisdom of getting pig dollars! Selangor state government understand the sensitivity but sadly stupidity of the Malays. And now since they are in the opposition they are championing this uproar forgotten to be good wakil rakyat for the state and to make sure the malays understand the need to clean up the pig farms in malaya which has resulted in the JE outbreak. Yes, Pig Farms in Malaysia are dirty, pig itself are dirty creatures so it is important to keep farm as hygenic as possible or not the idea of turning Selangor into a develop state bt next two years is just pipe dream.

The Malays must put aside sentiment and study the DOE studies made. Look at the proposal and if need be ask the designated place to be move a bit futher but remember that we are sharing our place with others too! They must be a spirit of give and take as it once was 50 years back!

Hi long time no hear! So who is Geet Wilders? Do anyone knows him, I dont! Has anyone sen the film, I have! What do I think!, It is misleading but i am not angry because part of the problem is the Muslim themselve! What? Yes the muslim ummah themselve are part of the problem. When the Muslim clerics denounces The kafir using quranic verses, what they say is true, although the verses were taken out of context but when this was pointed out by Geet the Muslims are angry!! Below is the Movie see for yourself



So what's give with all these Muslim. Look we rant and curse them, we qoute the verses out of context many a times. We did that knowingly especially when the clerics try to substatiate their sermons with the quotes. None of us question it, none ittleigently, just recently a couple could not get married because the families were of different political parties. And until recently Muslim in malaysia, some of them refuse to pray together because the Iman was from the government and the 'fatwa' religious edict of the opposition islamic party leader the infamous fatwa Hadi Awang which condemn the UMNO members as infidels and until now he refuse to retrct the edict thus that make people like me who does not support him could be killed or put to death(luckilly we are not in Afghanistan). Why cant we admit our faults, why cant we have intelligent talks like below. Think if they said we are violent do we need to show that we are violent! Why cant we do the opposite?